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Lim Swee Say is many different things to many people: a cabinet-level politician serving in the Prime Minister's office, a long-standing promoter of technology development, a keen golfer, a husband, and a father of two.
But to half a million unionised workers in Singapore, he is the Secretary-General of the united labour movement, their representative at the highest level. To the 1000 companies employing those workers, he is the head labour relations negotiator. And to the rest of the country, he is one of the chief architects and spokespeople for the Government's response to the worsening recession.
So it's not surprising that the 54 year-old has a great deal to talk about. His meeting with HRM covers a wide range of issues, but what they all come down to is Singapore's tripartite system. That, he says, will be the key to both fighting the recession, and developing further growth during the eventual recovery.
United we stand
It's hard to talk about tripartism - the unique system of cooperation between employers, workers and government - without a short history lesson. Given so many other economies appear stuck with adversarial models of industrial relations " marked by damaging strikes and lockouts " Lim says it's important to consider the historical context for Singapore's different track.
That began with independence from Malaysia. Singapore's push toward modernisation and foreign investment naturally led it to create a business friendly environment on the island. Low taxes, stable government and the key geographic location of Singapore's port all brought in a number of foreign companies, many keen to take advantage of the largely untapped Singapore workforce. 1969 was a turning point - 4 years after we became independent, Lim says. We had an urgent task to create jobs (but) within our region there was no source of labour-intensive investment.
Creating an attractive business environment brought a number of large employers to the island. But it was the promise of industrial peace that was one of the most important factors in keeping them. The early days saw some tensions between the new employers and unions but Lim says workers quickly realised the need for change. The labour movement finally bit the bullet and said "yes" we must look at the new world and we must adopt a new philosophy. We must modernise the labour movement, modernise our thinking and our understanding of global competition.
"Having decided to go through this process of transformation" from confrontation to cooperation "we started a series of tripartite initiatives. These have included a number of programmes that are still in use today" with bodies like the National Wages Council commanding respect despite their recommendations having only informal status in strict legal terms. That difference is still apparent today.
Labour movements all over the world are pro-worker. Managements all over the world are pro-business. In Singapore, the government, the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) and the Employers Federation hold a slightly different view, Lim says. We believe that to be pro-worker, we have to be pro-business. If we're not pro-business there's no way we can succeed in our mission of looking after the interests of workers. The two go hand-in-hand.
Even in hard times
Lim says that philosophy is even more important when the economy turns sour. Every day all over the world we hear about major retrenchments of workers, he says. The typical responses by business will be to cut jobs to save costs - it's the logical thing to do. But in Singapore, we don't believe that.
Rather, the labour movement works closely with businesses to find other ways to cut costs and handle excess manpower. Lim says this leaves all three parts of the tripartite triangle in the best "win-win" position. In order to ensure that the global downturn will not cause permanent damage to our economy, obviously we have to be pro-business. But at the same time, we have not forgotten the core philosophy that will help keep us together.
He warns against companies trying to make these decisions on their own, without consulting with unions about the alternatives. Every time we make progress, we strengthen the trust. It's important that in good times and bad times, we don't forget that.
One of the most publicised retrenchment exercises of late last year, when the DBS Banking Group let go of some 900 workers, crossed that line. The company earned a stinging rebuke from the labour movement, Lim saying the move looked like an unconsidered response to the sudden downturn.
"Perception on the ground is that DBS has decided on retrenchment as the first resort, " he noted at the time. "Ground reaction is critical and highly negative. "
Lessons from the past
He says companies appear to have heeded that lesson since then, just as the labour movement has learned from past recessions and downturns. During each downturn, we make sure that progress and trust are not being compromised. But more importantly, we always learn. As a result, after each downturn, not only do we survive, but we emerge even stronger and wiser.
Lim says there are two key areas that have been improved upon since the last major economic upheaval in 1998. Our wage system today is a lot more flexible. Work arrangements are more flexible. So now companies are able to manage their excess manpower much better without downsizing, he says.
Our reskilling and upskilling infrastructure and capacity (has also improved).
Whereas in 1998, most skills education was employer based, the labour movement has since created its own resources and initiatives. Lim says these offer workers more transferable skills - and are helping to reduce the impact of structural unemployment, wherever there is a mismatch between jobs and skills.
The limits of law
One important lesson Lim says the labour movement has learned, is that employment laws are not necessarily the answer to protecting workers and their conditions.
I believe "speaking as a union leader" many countries make the mistake of trying to solve many of the labour disputes they have through the enactment of employment law. Instead, he says unions and companies need to work together to get the maximum benefits for both business and workers.
A law can only dictate minimum performance. But the objective of the labour movement is more than getting companies to not to do things that are illegal, but rather to do things that are socially responsible. And you cannot have a law to draw the line on what is socially responsible.
Having said that, Lim says it is still important to ensure the minimum requirements for both employers and employees are steeped in legislation. We make sure that our employment law is adequate (and) comprehensive. We will continue to refine that; keep upgrading and enhancing. But at the same time, 70% of our effort is not on what other law we need to enact.
The next challenge
While most of that energy is presently focused squarely on the current economic downturn, Lim still has one eye on the longer term future. In particular, he's always looking for the next growth avenue for the NTUC. But Lim is not specifically looking to woo non-affiliated unions into the NTUC umbrella. Asked about the possibility, he says there won't be any red carpets laid out. It's up to them, he says. If they see value in affiliating then we welcome them.
The real growth potential , he says, lies in new industries and businesses where workers will find a benefit in forming a union, or where existing unions may alter their reach to include them. For this reason, the labour movement is always considering the needs of presently non-union workers as well as its own members.
But the biggest goal is continued economic growth for Singapore; helping to expand the size of the pie, rather than squabbling over pieces of the existing wealth. Notwithstanding the current downturn, Lim says the labour movement and its tripartite partners have been extremely successful at this task. He cites recent NTUC research showing Singapore's economic growth was above world growth for 13 of the last 17 years (to the end of last year). The country also enjoyed less than 3% unemployment in all but three of those years.
" We believe that we are the only economy in the world that was able to achieve so many years of full employment," he concludes. "We believe we are the best performing economy in the world. "
Keynote presentation
Lim Swee Say, Secretary General of the National Trades Union Congress, will present the keynote address at this year’s HR Summit. The labour chief says he’s looking forward to the event and hopes to rally Singapore’s HR leaders in the face of the global economic downturn:
“I hope to convey the mindset of ‘upturning the downturn’,” he says. “The downturn is unavoidable. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Singapore or any other economy – we all face the same challenge. But we have overcome several economic downturns before and emerged stronger every time. We can do it again.”
Lim will speak on the opening day, May 6, at the Suntec Singapore International Convention Centre.
In his own words
Lim Swee Say, Secretary General of the National Trades Union Congress, reveals all
+ On tripartism: “We believe that to be pro-worker, we have to be pro-business. If we’re not pro-business there’s no way we can succeed in our mission of looking after the interests of workers.”
+ On employment laws: “We make sure that our employment law is adequate, and comprehensive. Yet, at the same time, we also recognise that employment law has its limitations. You can legislate minimum requirements (but) you cannot legislate maximum requirements.”
+ On the downturn: It’s a global downturn so there’s no escape for any economy.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s Singapore or any other economy – we all face the same challenge.
+ On unions operating outside the NTUC umbrella: “It’s up to them. If they see value in affiliating then we welcome them.”
+ On DBS’ decision to retrench (without union consultation): “It is regrettable because trust takes a long time to build, but a short time to destroy”
Bio Brief
Born in 1954, Lim Swee Say studied electronics, computer and systems engineering through a Singapore Armed Forces scholarship. He graduated Loughborough University in the United Kingdom with first-class honours in 1976. He also holds a Masters degree in management, and an honourary doctorate of Technology.
Lim was actively involved in the development of Singapore’s technology industry, serving as CEO of the National Computer Board between 1986 and 1991. He also spent five years with the Economic Development Board, including three as managing director.
He entered politics and the labour movement in 1996 and has held several ministries over the last 12 years. While he remains a minister within the Prime Minister’s office, his key role now is with the National Trades Union Congress, where he has been Secretary General since January, 2007.